At what point does a phenomenon cease being an annual 'big show' and start being regarded as a cultural staple? Granted, there is no shortage of rock n' roll festivals on the North American summer calendar but, since it launched fifteen years ago, the Vans Warped Tour has seen similar traveling music festivals come and go, trends explode and fade and tastes change as frequently as the number of brews in Molson's brew master book, but has never faltered and never failed. A lot of sources site time, taste and economy as being mitigating factors to the success or failure of a sprawling package tour – Lollapalooza has trimmed the scale of its presentation down to just a single annual show, Lilith Fair has vanished completely and now Ozzfest has come off the road this year for the first time since it launched in 1996. At one time or another, each has sited frustrating economies as the impetus for their weakening in the marketplace, but one need look no further than Warped Tour and the annual success of it to see that such complaints really only amount to excuses for disinterest; Warped Tour remains and, according to creator Kevin Lyman, is only getting stronger.
So where does the enduring interest in a travelling, big-package punk rock show stem from – particularly when so many other similarly bent festivals have historically bottomed out? According to Lyman, the secret to Warped Tour's longevity has been a matter of annually altering the fabric (read: breadth and focus of talent) of the production ever so slightly to keep it current and fresh. At this point, in fact, even Lyman concedes that calling it simply a 'punk rock show' isn't one hundred percent accurate as there is more divergent talent involved than there has ever been before. In conversation, Lyman has difficulty hiding his pride at the fact that, even in a faltering economy, Warped Tour's advance ticket sales are up from 2008. The tour founder can also say that, in fifteen years, interest from bands to join the tour hasn't waned and the opportunities for expansion and further development of the shows haven't dried up. So how does it work? Read on and find out how punk rock has become multi-generational.
Bill Adams vs Kevin Lyman, organizer of Warped Tour
BA: Hey Kevin, it's Bill Adams calling. I'm sorry to be such a pain in the ass and a couple of minutes late.
KL: Nope, it's alright, it's alright.
BA: Okay are you sure? I know you were fielding a call when I phoned….
KL: Nope, it's okay – I told them I would call them back. This works best.
BA: Okay cool. So how are things going? Warped Tour is about to kick off…
KL: Yup, in Pomona, California next week.
BA: What's the general vibe you've been getting so far from online sources and advance ticket sales?
KL: I feel pretty good about it. Our ticket sales are up – even in this economy – based on this point and it's hard to gauge with Warped Tour because seventy percent of our ticket sales tend to come in the last seven days.
BA: Do they really?
KL: Yeah, that's been the case historically so looking at it right now based historically, we're seven percent ahead of where we were last year. It's been ramping up – as it always has – and we're a little ahead of where we usually are; Warped Tour has been on sale for a few months now and it's been selling thirty or forty tickets a day which is consistent, but then we'll see a jump where it goes to one hundred and then two hundred a day and then you see these things where you're suddenly doing a thousand tickets a day. That's always been how it's gone. I've always had to sweat it out, but right now even though the States is in a recession – and I'm so glad we finally admitted that last year because I travel and I felt we were in it last summer.
BA: It's really true. I mean, I'm Canadian but I'm from a border town so I get to bear witness to all of it.
KL: Oh yeah? Where did you originally used to live?
BA: I used to live in Niagara Falls, Ontario.
KL: Oh okay, so you know the manufacturing areas and everything.
BA: Yeah, pretty well.
KL: And all those folks that are working hard and feel the struggles every day.
BA: That's absolutely it. I mean, I used to pretty much be able to throw a rock from some of the places I've worked and hit Buffalo….
KL: Right. So you have to look at it and it's hard to isolate yourself into that vacuum of what you're trying to get done, but with everything going on in the world right now, you have to wonder and hope. Like, for example, we're playing downtown Detroit and, right now, we're ahead but when you read the paper you see how hard Detroit's been hit and, really, we're getting more and more Detroits across the country. Detroit's always been a tough city even to live in but the really drastic shock of the economy is hitting it now and it's hitting other places like it the same way.
BA: Yeah, that's true. Again, I look at Buffalo and it's really doing the same thing there.
KL: Yeah. But, by the same token, I always have to feel like we're a value and people still have to be entertained; I mean, when we went out on the road last year – this is the same week we left right now – and at this time last year they were projecting that we'd be at ten-dollar gas by the end of the year. At that point, everything backed off a bit – our numbers dropped for a couple of days – but then I think people reasoned with themselves that they still needed some entertainment so those entertainment dollars start going where they get a value proposition and I've always felt like we deliver a great show for the value.
BA: I'd absolutely agree and even a passing glance at the bill this year and it's really catering to a wide taste. Like, obviously, not everyone's playing the whole tour but – and this was the case last year too – you're getting a really eclectic mix on a day-by-day basis; certainly more eclectic than you did in 1995. Was that a conscious move?
KL: Absolutely. I think it's always been a matter of timing. Like, if you look back at that first tour in 1995, it was Sublime, No Doubt, Quicksand… a pretty eclectic bill, but a lot fewer bands back then. In the same way, 2004 or 2005 was sort of the height of the emo scene and maybe the bill got a little skewed there, but it was still the current thing and we did still have the punk there. Conversely now when I look at the kids that are interested in Warped, they're living their lives like an iPod set to shuffle. They can jump around a lot in their taste and I think it's funny too because so many people listen to their music through headphones exclusively now, you can do that mix; you can listen to Katy Perry and no one's going to give you a hard time. Years ago when you were in your car or walking up the street with a tape-deck or something, everyone could hear what you were listening to but that's not the case now. Now you can be walking down the street and listen to whatever they want so you have people jumping from Taylor Swift to Fall Out Boy to Bring Me The Horizon back to a Bad Religion track. In the case of the Warped Tour, it has really opened up my ability to expose people to new music and it doesn't feel weird to go to the Warped Tour and introduced new acts of course, but also re-introduce things like Westbound Train who has a really old Motown sound which might catch new ears with some exposure. That's what I think the Warped Tour is starting to reflect: that iPod on shuffle.
BA: I can see that and, with Warped Tour, speaking as that kid could go catch the Buffalo show or catch a slightly different presentation of it in Toronto, it does have that construct that pretty much ensures you're going to get something you like. As far as Toronto is concerned, how's that working now? You can't have it at Molson Park anymore….
KL: No, they bulldozed it so we're down at Arrow Hall now. We were there last year too and had to re-adapt it for an indoor venue.
BA: Oh really? That's cool. As I was saying though, it really is trying to cater to a wider market and you are trying not to leave people behind. I know last year for some dates, you had an Old Skool stage running….
KL: Yeah – and as we're expanding it, we think kids can really dig into the history of it too. When we announce a band now, it's not like it was when we'd announce a band like TSOL and kids would run scared from the stage. Now when we announce them, kids can go online and check it out before they show up.
BA: Well sure – and it gives the older demographic an outlet too. Like I know Mike Watt, who hadn't been out in several years, and X and Fear and all did that Old Skool stage last year and that sounded really cool that that side of the mix was involved too.
KL: Yeah – I think in some ways, for a certain group of people, the tour is becoming second generational; where a dad might have come to the Warped Tour fifteen years ago because he was into Bad Religion and NoFX and Less Than Jake and they might have a child that's around eight years old now and they feel comfortable taking them out to the Warped Tour – so you've got the kid wearing the T-Shirt of the band that he likes – Sing It Loud or whatever – and then dad with his. We're finding that now, for a certain group of people, families make a day of it.
BA: I can relate to that, I have two step daughters that occasionally listen to some of the stuff I listen to.
KL: Exactly, and in some ways I try to book the tour so there's enough of that there. This year in Canada – which used to be one of our strongest markets, but it's dropped off in the last couple of years because there's just so many festivals going through – I made sure to book a good line-up that included some of the talents like Alexisonfire and Shad and Lights as well as a really good mix of the bands coming up from the States.
BA: Now, I know that a lot of bands used to be in for the long haul and do the whole tour – I'm betting NoFX and Bad Religion are still doing at least a significant amount, if not the whole thing….
KL: A lot of bands are on the tour the whole time, but we do have guest spots come in and out.
BA: Are any of those Canadian acts you mentioned in it for the long haul this year?
KL: Those Canadian bands are playing the whole U.S. We're really trying to get back to that practice where bands are in it for longer periods, if not the whole thing. Lights is playing about three-quarters of the tour, but it's kind of give-and-take; a band might be much stronger in Canada and, if they are, I want to make sure they get the exposure in the U.S. to help their careers along.
BA: That makes perfect sense. Now, we've already been talking about the changes that have happened within Warped Tour over the last few years, do you envision more? We were talking about a multi-generational show, do you envision a point at which one of those first-generation fans won't recognize the tour anymore?
KL: I don't know, as long as they come back every couple of years, I think it won't be so much a concern. It probably will – there will be that point eventually – but by then you're moving into the younger brothers and sisters' territory so as long as you can have that balance combined with the value that will have some people saying, 'Well, I won't be able to go to multiple shows, but this is one way to reconnect with my roots of music as well as see what's going on currently.'
BA: Now, obviously some bands have cycled through the line-up for the tour and I know that, even four or five years ago, bands like Dropkick Murphys were saying they didn't think they'd do it again after that year, was that something you envisioned would eventually happen? Did you think Warped would have that kind of longevity?
KL: Well, some bands go, some bands move on, but I've noticed that recently I've also got bands coming back saying, “Hey – what about 2010?” I think, in that way, Warped Tour is a bit of a safe harbor to go out on sometimes; you're not on the hook to sell your tickets. If the Warped Tour doesn't sell, they can blame the Warped Tour; they don't go, 'A band within the Warped Tour didn't help us to sell tickets,' they just blame us. I think that if this economy continues the way that I believe it's going to and we won't be coming out of it as fast as so many people say we will, Warped Tour and tours like it will become more of a safe haven for artists.
BA: …And presumably, the tour is willing to accommodate that stature….
KL: Yeah, I don't hold grudges, I try to focus on the good stuff.
BA: You were talking about 2010, how far does Warped Tour book in advance?
KL: I book them pretty early now, I book in September or October and I'll even start thinking about it in late August on the bus. I'm already thinking about it now really, but I've got to slow myself down; between the Mayhem Festival and booking Taste Of Chaos as well as getting this new Country thing going, I'm pretty busy. I'll look at some of it on the bus, but I don't feel that waiting around is a beneficial move. We used to hold a few spots to fill a little closer to the beginning of the tour because a band might start getting airplay or some other thing so we would capture that for the package, but now I think after they're booked in advance, their labels look at it like a goal. Like, 'Okay, the plan is to make them as big as we can by summertime.' Because of that, there's really no reason to wait around.
BA: That's true, why should the tour have to wait for the band?
KL: Sometimes with Warped, because of the number of bands on it, we've been assumed to get this band or that band in a cheap deal because of a bunch of other mitigating factors; for every band that broke, there are still four bands that we honored our commitments to having them on the tour.
BA: I can understand how that prospect would be of interest to bands too; I mean, upholding contracts is always attractive.
KL: We always do. Like, last year when the gas prices were going crazy and I had accountants coming to me thinking we should cut out portions of the tour – whether it was lose a stage or drop some of the acts – because we were at a projected risk of losing money, I said no, because we honor our commitments in good times and bad ones. This year we did make adjustments – we've gone to a single main stage and that was a decision I made last year so that stage will now go dark for twenty minutes, but the side stages will always have someone on and we're allowing some of those bands that do have some history to play for forty minutes. Bad Religion is one such band. They approached me saying that it was cool that we'd pay them for thirty minutes, but they've been around for twenty-five years and it's fun to play ten minutes of new music too.
Home Page:
Official Warped Tour Site
Tour Dates:
Warped Tour 2009
Related Articles:
Warped Tour 2008 – Part 1 – [Live Review]
Warped Tour 2008 – Part 2 – [Live Review]
Warped Tour 2007 – A Day in the Life Vol. 001: Poison The Well
Anberlin – Warped Tour from the Road.002
