Bill Adams vs. Ben Shepherd
BS: Hell, Bill?
BA: That's me, how're you doing Ben?
BS: Not bad, yourself?
BA: Pretty well, thanks. Where are you right now?
BS: Bainbridge Island, outside of Seattle.
BA: So you haven't left home yet then.
BS: No, we leave on Sunday.
BA: Okay, so it's just a little more waiting when it comes to really examining this record then. It was three years in the making, or something.
BS: Which album – Deep Owl?
BA: Yeah.
BS: Yeah, that was done before Soundgarden reunited.
BA: Oh really?!
BS: Yeah. It's only coming out now. It was put on the back burner because Soundgarden's the main focus and it takes priority.
BA: I see. So you had some time, so you've just put it out now.
BS: Yeah – well, we finally got back on track finishing it; we got the artwork done and all that. It was named a long time ago, but we needed to get the artwork done, and that's done now.
BA: Well, at least it's coming out now, it's a great record man – I wanted to say congratulations.
BS: Thank you. I'm glad you like it.
BA: I do! I had no idea what to expect of it, and I ended up being really, really impressed! What inspired you to make this record? I mean, you had a few other projects on the go at one point.
BS: Well, you know, basically my friends goaded me into recording it. They said, 'Well why don't you record first “The Great Syrup Accident” and then “Neverone Blues”' – and they didn't have drums on them or anything, they were just vocals and guitar – and then they goaded me into recording a whole record. I said 'Alright, whatever, I'll do it.' I figured, I hadn't been around in a long time and hadn't been around at all, so I figured it would come out of the blue – like, 'This is what happened to the bass player of Soundgarden!' Then two days before we finished it – or right around then, in the recording process of it, after I'd told the guys in the studio that I'd never be in another band again – Soundgarden reunited.
BA: [laughing] Really?!
BS: Yeah.
BA: See, that's what you get for saying things like that.
BS: [laughing] I know! Exactly.
BA: I can sort of relate. When I first joined the press eleven years ago, Soundgarden wasn't doing much of anything – so I figured I'd never get the chance to interview a member of Soundgarden. But now here we are.
BS: But you did! [laughing]
BA: Exactly. Now, if you'll permit me Ben, I'd like to go on the record as saying, “I'll never interview Tom Waits!”
BS: [laughing] I just got all of his records!
BA: Nice! I just bought Mule Variations on vinyl. That's pretty cool for me, because it's the record which realy made a fan out of me.
BS: Nice.
BA: I've kind of become that guy, among my circle of friends.
BS: The guy who loves his vinyl? I can appreciate that.
BA: Well, sure. I mean, it never even occurred to be that the idea needed to be sold, I remember listening to vinyl when I was a kid. Of course, somebody handed me a cassette for review a couple of days ago too, which I found surprising.
BS: It's because they're analogue-sounding.
BA: I guess.
BS: They sound great on a car stereo, because you're in a condensed room.
BA: Yeah. But let's get back to your thing – are you going to take a band out on the road with you? Going to do shows on your own? I can't find any information in that regard….
BS: I haven't booked anything to play live at all. All these friends of mine who are drummers have said, 'Hey – make a band and I'll play drums for you!' but I haven't thought about it yet. I don't even know if I want to do that – it's hard!
BA: I can understand that. I mean, the arrangements on In Deep Owl are spare, for the most part, but I could see how trying to present it in a live setting would be a challenge.
BS: Exactly. It's complicated because most of the songs are based on acoustic guitars; virtually every song was written on this one guitar that I was re-friending. I just did a video for “Collide” sitting in my yard in front of a weeping willow tree and, if you look, you can still see the original dust on the guitar. That's actually my favorite part of the video; that you can see the dust on the guitar. I hadn't played that guitar in like thirteen years or something but, when we started the recording, I immediately thought of it. I needed that guitar on it. It was just sitting in my house on Bainbridge and I took one last ferry ride, grabbed the guitar, got back to Seattle and then didn't go home again for a long time. That's what all the couch surfing and studio surfing that I did was all about; it was what I did to finish this record.
BA: See, I'd read about that, but it really seems like it must have been taken out of context; I mean, I read that and it just seemed so desperate but, hearing you talk about it, it doesn't feel the same way at all.
BS: Yeah, that's what I was doing; I was staying at my friend's studio down in Georgetown – the old nickname for which is Deep Owl – and that's where the recording started. I didn't bother going home – I was sleeping on the couch at the studio – and they didn't want me to go home; I had just broken up with my girlfriend at that time and they didn't want me to go home and mope. So I just didn't. Then we changed studios; we rented a Pro Tools setup from Soundgarden's old soundman Stuart Hallarman, who also runs Avast, because the recordings we'd made at Deep Owl were done on Pro Tools. Actually, it was Stuart who gave me the acoustic guitar too; every studio has a beater guitar kicking around, and when I was recording the Hater album with Stuart, I took that guitar and got it repaired for him and then, when Hater was done, Stuart gave me the guitar. That blew my mind, because I thought it was the studio guitar – and he just didn't like to see it getting beaten up like that. So we rented Pro Tools from Stuart and finished the album at a different studio, where I was staying on the couch and on the floor with producer Dave French. We were all starving to death, but we were making it; we created our own little world out there while we were also making this album.
BA: Wow – that's remarkable. I don't think when people imagine a midlife crisis for a rock star, that's what they envision.
BS: No, it wasn't a crisis, and it wasn't midlife; that's too optimistic. People say that midlife is thirties or forties, but I think that's optimistic; does everyone who is thirty-five assume they're going to live another thirty-five years?
BA: Well, that's true. So there's no real tour plans going yet…
BS: No, not yet.
BA: But the record's out and, convention being what it is, is there the chance of a tour?
BS: I don't know, it'll depend on what Soundgarden is doing; how we're going to be supporting King Animal. After I know that, I'll figure out what I'm going to do with the time that isn't spoken for; I've got other songs and projects that I want to do besides this record and Soundgarden, they're all just a matter of timing and getting them all together and what-not. I kind of have a rough idea of how I think a stage show should look for In Deep Owl, but that will take a lot of time, a lot of energy and a lot of other people who would have to be involved in order to putt it off.
BA: Who else played on this record? I haven't seen any liner notes….
BS: I had a couple of different drummers play on it and a saxophonist, and I had my friend Steve play stand-up bass on the last song, but I did everything else; all the vocals, all the guitars, all the other instruments too. It's would be totally doable to do the album live – I'd have to try and figure out how it would work and how I'd get all the players that I'd want to use – it would just be a matter of making it worth everyone's while to take it on the road.
BA: So what about this other stuff you're talking about making?
BS: I'm going to start working on that other stuff after Soundgarden gets back from its European tour. About three-quarters of the way through making In Deep Owl, I got this idea that I wanted to make this other record, and I had the idea for the band it would take to make it many years before that, but that would all be a matter of arranging the timelines and making sure that the players I have in mind would be available to do it.
BA: So what are these other projects about?
BS: One of them had to do with experimenting with frequencies and moving objects with frequencies. The idea first started when I noticed how much air was moved by sound. Bass moves the most air on stage – unless you have a Hammond organ, that moves a lot of air. So that's one of the ideas I've got, trying to develop an act which moves things with sound, that's called Forming Policy and ideally, I'd want to have, like, a kiddie pool full of sand and objects in it, and that a bunch of musicians would play around it and make different forms and shapes with the sound they're making in the sand and move objects across it with sound as well.
BA: That would be cool, but how would you present that on stage? With a video rig shooting and then projecting it on a larger screen?
BS: No, no – just put it down in front of the people. If they can handle getting their guts moved around by the sound that nine different bass players make at the same time, then more power to 'em. But what I'd need in order to try and get that organized is a room in which we'd be able to experiment with very high volumes and very low frequencies; so I'd need to find a sound lab to work in, basically. All those years with Soundgarden, and I'd show up early to shows to work on what I called The Feedback Opera; I'd start using feedback that I'd generate from my rig and make paper levitate. I had gotten pretty far with the experimenting too – then we disbanded and I didn't have the chance to really work on it anymore because I didn't have the space to keep playing at those high volumes – so I put that on hold. Then I have another idea for a band called Top Dead Center which was another band idea that I never did, and that has now mutated and become Forming Policy.
BA: Okay, so, none of this stuff has really been put into motion yet, but the ideas for them are set.
BS: Yeah. Over the last two years, they've really started to seem more possible because In Deep Owl worked out so well. Making that record really helped to build my confidence; making In Deep Owl really proved to me that I can start projects and get them done on my own when I put my mind to them. Hater might have been able to do that but, because it took ten years to come out, it really didn't. The second Hater album really destroyed my confidence or the thought that anyone would give a fuck about the songs I write but, now that's done away with and Deep Owl's out and Soundgarden's reunited, I've really built that back up. I'm really beginning to think things are possible and, if I put my mind to a project, I'm going to do it; I'm not going to waste time anymore.
BA: So will the principle be, when you start you see a project through to the end and then begin work on the next one? No half finishing anything?
BS: Yeah – because usually during the process of getting a project done, that's when other ideas start to come together that I'll want to do too and they all help to shape each other.
BA: I can see what you're saying. So how does Soundgarden factor in, and what's this upcoming tour about?
BS: This is actually the first European tour in support of King Animal. The last time we were over there, it was really just a re-introduction to say we were back, but now we're going over to present the new music properly. This is the proper tour support for King Animal; we haven't been to Europe since the record came out.
BA: Oh okay!
BS: Yeah – I can't believe that the record has been out as long as it has, and it's taken us this long to get to Europe. It's funny, but Matt [Soundgarden drummer Matt Cameron –ed] has been really happy with the way it has all worked out because this is the first August in many years. He's loving it! He gets to spend the whole month with his family.
BA: So what's next after the Soundgarden tour?
BS: I'll do what I can, when I can next! I think the next thing to do would be to focus on Deep Owl or, if Soundgarden's touring again, focus on that next tour and jam some Deep Owl stuff in around it, and/or figure out the other projects. Those projects I was talking about before are only the MUSICAL projects I've had in mind lately; there are other things I've got on the go that I want to throw some time at. For example, during this King Animal tour of Europe, I'm also going to be storyboarding this sixteen millmeter film I'm going to make for the fun of it. I'm pretty lucky in that I'm able to do these things and I have a lot of really cool team of friends around me who are really handy people that are able to do all these different crazy ideas and things done. Another thing I'd like to do is a set of implements which will let you go zip lining through the forest, but you can only get to it by boat or if you know where it is. All of it is just stuff that we intend to add to the spice of life and people just think are cool because they know they're there. I just think it's cool; I might not get to use it as much as other people who are involved might get to, but I just like the idea that I know things like that are there.
BA: So, really it's more about the doing than it is about the result. The process, not the result.
BS: Yeah – it's about learning to do something new, and gaining the experience. I'm an absolute rookie at everything except playing music, but I love the joy of learning.
